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>> haskins: coming up on "theater talk"... >> ruffalo: my agent called and said, "listen. they're doing 'the price.'
Movie Theaters In Virginia Beach, we don't think you should do it. it's a revival." you know, "you're not the lead." >> riedel: all the crap you get
from the agents. >> ruffalo: "it's an ensemble." i was like... >> devito: "give it to me." >> ruffalo: ..."sign me up." >> haskins: "theater talk" is made possible in part by the cuny tv foundation. ♪♪
>> solomon: the price of used furniture is nothing more than the viewpoint, and if wouldn't understand the viewpoint, it's impossible to understand the price. >> victor: so what's the viewpoint? it's all worth nothing?
>> solomon: that's what you said. i didn't say that. >> haskins: from new york city, this is "theater talk." i'm susan haskins. >> riedel: and i'm michael riedel of the new york post.
now, susan, there's a terrific new production of arthur miller's play "the price" at the american airlines theatre. you know, we often hear about "death of a salesman" or "the crucible," but i urge you to go see "the price," a play
that's not done very often. very, very, very good play. directed by my old friend and sparring partner terry kinney. we'll get to that in a moment, terry. welcome back to "theater talk." >> haskins: still. >> riedel: [ laughs ]
he won't let it go. starring mark ruffalo. fine actor. welcome to "theater talk." and making his broadway debut at 72, as he told me recently, after all these years knocking around this business, danny devito.
>> devito: nice to be here. >> riedel: welcome back. all right. before we get into "the price," mark was curious about this. what did we fight over? we had a fight over something, and you came on the show. >> kinney: i actually don't even
remember. >> riedel: i don't remember the fight. >> ruffalo: terry will never forget. >> haskins: clearly, you said some horrible thing. >> riedel: no, i di-- i don't... >> kinney: no, i've been
vindicated since. >> kinney: we were taking out the intermission and all the monologues in the play "reasons to be pretty," and the producers decided to shut down for three days, and i said, "why? i'll just take them out." but they did that.
in the post was a story about "trouble," trouble over it, and so i was so angry. the actors were demoralized by the piece, so i called him up. i walked outside into the street and called him up and just rained expletives. >> riedel: on my answer machine.
so, i go to my office. >> devito: oh, on the answer-- >> riedel: it was on the answering machine. now i remember. it was like, "this is terry kinney. "you [shouting indistinctly]" and like, "whoa!" and i thought, "hey, actually,
i'll just transcribe this and run it as my column. >> kinney: which he did. >> devito: you did? with a lot of, like...thingies? >> ruffalo: if the new york post only did more reporting like you. >> riedel: it was accurate.
it was accurate. >> kinney: as a gift, my cast read it, in unison, from the stage to me one day. [ laughter ] >> riedel: terry, what attracted you to this play? >> kinney: oh, i loved this play, you know, like, from
eighth grade. i used to talk about this play all the time while we were reading in class "death of a salesman" and "the crucible." i would say, "oh, you have to read 'the price.' it's so great.
it's much more personal. and people would, you know, not really respond to that. so i've carried it around for about 10 years in new york like a carpet sample willy loman would have in his trunk, you know. >> riedel: trying to get
somebody to do "the price" with you. >> kinney: people thought of it as second-rate miller. and i just, you know, didn't, so... todd felt the same way about it. >> riedel: and we should say, mark, you play a policeman,
nearing retirement? >> yes. he's on the precipice of the rest of his life. >> riedel: and he's come to his father's -- the brownstone, with the attic. father's died. >> ruffalo: that's right.
>> riedel: and he wants to sell all the furniture. >> ruffalo: yeah, they're tearing the building down, and so it has to go, and his wife would like a little piece of the pie for their retirement. >> haskins: 'cause she doesn't want that furniture.
>> riedel: she wants the money. but what's so interesting, i think, about the play, though, is the setup is, you have a brother, and you have a difficult relationship with your brother, and there's a lot of talk about the brother, and we expect the brother is
going to come on, and instead, danny devito comes on as this fascinating character. >> devito: solomon. >> riedel: who is an antiques appraiser, dealer. >> devito: been in the business for 65 years and knows furniture in and out.
he was 86 when he kind of packed it in. he's almost 90 now. he's been sitting around for a couple years, waiting for whatever to happen, but it hasn't. he's still 100% really strong. and the phone rings, and it
changes his life. again, the thing about solomon is he's always -- he really believes that there are a lot of bounces in life. you know, you get knocked down, and you can't let that stop you. the idea is that, right at this moment, what i discover
with these guys -- solomon -- is that ball is just hitting the -- he's bouncing up now. so if you're on the downswing, maybe for those couple of years, he's just hit the pavement or the floorboards, and he's bouncing back. that's where you guys pick up
the play. >> haskins: and because mark is sort of -- would you call yourself a tragic hero? >> ruffalo: i'd like to. >> kinney: [ laughs ] >> riedel: well, your character's a little on the
downswing when this play starts. >> ruffalo: yeah, and he's -- there's an interesting relationship between where he is. my character doesn't know that men can bounce, and he doesn't know that he can bounce, and his model, his father, didn't
bounce. he broke. >> haskins: and his brother is... >> ruffalo: his brother's just... his brother took off. he went to live his life and left the broken pieces for
victor to pick up. >> haskins: i didn't relate to his brother. fabulous performance by tony shalhoub, but there's nothing in that character that i'm going, "oh." i mean, i understood what he was saying, but your character, i
was... >> devito: well, everybody in the play has to pay a price. that's the, i mean, big deal. this is like arthur saying, i guess, you know, "look around you, because whatever you put forth, something's gonna -- there's always a cause and
effect, and you have to pay whatever it is, we don't know. so the idea is, do you settle for things in life, or do you go, "i'm gonna shake this off and come back," or you just become a defeatist and just go down and let the thing take you down into the abyss?
and solomon basically -- well, his name -- solomon. he's pretty wise. been around. 90 years old. seen it all -- struggling countries all over the world. fought. almost was killed. totally smashed, but come back. always with that spirit of --
>> haskins: but he's also very perceptive about people. >> devito: absolutely. because this is, like, a young man who is -- he's 50 years old. he's not -- it's like, 50 is like -- he's a baby boy. >> riedel: 'cause you're 90.
>> devito: i'm 90. yeah. >> haskins: but he's in trouble, and you see it. >> devito: yeah. absolutely. but i'm also a furniture dealer who wants to make money. i mean, it's engrained in me, you know. >> riedel: and i love --
it's like -- arthur must've seen vaudeville, because the character is a vaudevillian. >> kinney: yes, absolutely. i mean, he was really delighted when he created the character of solomon because it was taking him back to his youth and watching yiddish theater here on
second avenue. and he created a character that he's never put in any other play, you know. the kind of comedy he creates is nearly vaudevillian. >> haskins: is eating the egg in the script? >> riedel: yes.
well, we should say -- there's an absolutely -- you got to see this play. it is a showstopper. danny comes out as solomon, takes an egg out of his briefcase, and starts eating it and then spits. i feel sorry for you, because
every night, you're being sprayed. >> ruffalo: showered with danny devito's... >> devito: as we've gone along, now, with the previews and the opening and everything, and the audiences always inform you so much about what's going on
onstage. and we have agreed that there is a kind of a yolk limit, so as soon it gets to the point where -- 'cause you could do that all day. >> ruffalo: no, there have been -- and he has.
>> devito: and i have. >> ruffalo: we have had nights where -- you talk about a showstopper -- we literally had to lift the curtain and drop the curtain just for this bit. >> devito: you have to make a deal with the first three rows of the audience that you're
gonna do the dry cleaning, because, you know, there's gonna be pieces of egg. >> riedel: every night, though, egg in your -- >> ruffalo: every consonant. there's a lot of consonants in those sentences. >> riedel: but i love that
because we think of arthur as so -- and i knew him slightly, you know -- the very serious american playwright, and there's a wonderful playful side to him. >> ruffalo: well, the whole play is infused with humor, in a way that -- i mean, arthur miller, he gets humor, and he knows how
to dish it. you know, he does. he uses solomon -- as george bernard shaw would say, you got to get them laughing long enough to get their mouths open to shove the medicine down their throat. i always see that first-act bit
as miller softening up his prey for the kill, because what's coming after that... >> riedel: the psychological drama between the brothers... >> ruffalo: they're like, "we're seeing a miller comedy! this is amazing! we don't have to --
he's not asking us to question capitalism. ourselves and our priorities as americans. we're just having a kick here." and then, boom! >> kinney: i always tell my friends who come to the show, at intermission, they go, "oh, it's
so buoyant." i say, "just wait." a deep spiral... >> devito: get over to the bar a little bit and then come back and talk to me. >> riedel: although it's extremely well-structured, because, you know, you do get
into the heavy stuff, but just when it gets almost too painful, solomon comes bounding back. >> kinney: interruptions are a big part of the show. just before he's going to seal the deal, the brother comes in, and, you know, it starts there and it keeps going.
so those interruptions are his way of saying, you know, there's a certain destiny in the way it's unspooling here. >> riedel: yeah. yeah. i wanted to talk to you guys about your beginnings here in the theater. now, mark, you're from --
where are you from? >> ruffalo: kenosha, wisconsin. >> riedel: kenosha, wisconsin. >> ruffalo: the great theater town. >> riedel: yeah, all the old shows tried out there before broadway, right? >> ruffalo: that's where they
all started, yeah. >> riedel: what was that sort of hooked you as a kid on theater? or maybe it was the movies. i don't know. >> ruffalo: it was, honestly, the three stooges and charlie chaplin. >> riedel: got that in common
with danny. he told me, when i talked to him the other day, he loved the three stooges. >> ruffalo: yeah, so, we would do all the three stooges bits. >> devito: we got 2/3 of it covered here. >> riedel: with jessica hecht,
right? >> devito: we'll add this one over here. let's get a screwdriver, and... "wenk!" >> ruffalo: nyuk nyuk nyuk!! >> riedel: so you guys would re-enact -- >> ruffalo: so that started it,
yeah. me and my brother and my sisters would re-enact, you know -- "slowly, i turned. step by step." >> devito: oh, yeah -- "niagara falls." >> ruffalo: we did >> devito: that's a good one.
>> ruffalo: yeah, so it started with that, and -- well, i remember, i was little. i was probably, like, 8 years old, and my grandmother -- i was a night owl, she called me, and she'd stay up at night, and she'd smoke cigarettes and
watch old movies on american movie classics or one of those, you know. and i remember one night, she said, "there's a movie on tonight. why don't you come down after the other kids go to sleep?" and i said, "okay."
so i snuck down. she's like, "it's a world premiere of a famous movie." and i came down, and i'm watching this thing, and this guy's electrifying. [ as marlon brando ] "where are your fancy furs, stella?" and i'm watching him, going,
"what is he doing?" i didn't really -- acting was, like, a very abstract concept to me. but i was like, "what is he doing? i want to do that." that's what i said to her. and years later, i didn't even
know who it was. years later, i was in an acting class, and everyone's talking marlon brando this, marlon brando that, and they're like, "you don't know who marlon brando is?" i'm in my 20s now. i was 18.
and i was like, "no." my friend's like, "i'm gonna show -- you don't know 'on the waterfront'? you don't know 'streetcar named desire'? you don't know this?" i was like, "no, i've never seen it."
he pops in "streetcar named desire," and i remember sitting there watching it with my grandmother, and i never knew who he was, but as soon as it came on, i was like... >> riedel: you were back in that room with your grandmother. >> ruffalo: ..."this is it.
this is why i even am here, and i didn't even know who the hell this guy was. >> devito: [ as brando ] i get by with the kindness of strangers. solomon, you gonna take care of him tonight? >> riedel: terry, what was it
for you growing up? >> kinney: oh, well, i delivered posters for the local movie theater, so i got in free, and i would have to climb a ladder. it was like -- what is it? what was the movie? "il postino" or whatever it's called.
i would sit up in the booth, and -- >> haskins: now, where was this? >> kinney: in lincoln, illinois. >> haskins: ah. >> kinney: i watched all the adult movies -- "who's afraid of virginia woolf?" and, you know, "toys in the attic."
i remember that really messed me up. but i could tell what was good acting, you know, et cetera. and then, i didn't really follow through. a little bit of speech team, and then i just tried out in college because somebody dared
me to, for a tuition waiver, and i made up a monologue, and i claimed it was from "the zoo story" by albee. so i started with, "the story of jerry and the dog," and that's all i knew, and then i just made up something, and when i ran out of steam, i
kicked a chair, and i left, and they said, "young man, come back. come back in here. you have access to emotion that we ha--" you know, i was like... >> riedel: oh, i know. i still have the voicemail.
i know about your access to the emotion. kicking the chair. the temper was there from the beginning. >> kinney: oh, my gosh. >> haskins: and then you began "steppenwolf," did you not? >> kinney: well, yes.
during college, yeah, i met jeffrey perry, and therefore, gary sinise, after my sophomore year, and we did a play in highland park, illinois, in a church, and, you know, we just vowed to come back after we graduated. that's how we started.
>> riedel: danny, i was fascinated, when we were talking in your dressing room the other day. you really were into experimental theater when you started, in the '60s and '70s here. i mean, you were hanging out
with meredith monk and you're down at la mama. that was the stuff that you really liked. >> devito: yeah, i really dug all that andrei serban stuff -- you know, you go to a theater. like la mama. you go to la mama, and they'd
be setting things on fire, and it was, like, amazing. and everybody's playing a drum, and you're running around with war paint, and it's like, just ama-- working with all kinds of... i love that stuff, you know. i really dug it.
and then, i was actually at the theater of living arts for one musical, a rosalyn drexler play called "the line of least existence." and this was the first time i worked with judd. he was playing a part. i was a playing a dog.
i was playing a dog who was having an affair with his wife. i had great musical numbers. rosalyn's terrific. and i had a collar, and i was, you know, an upright dog. anyway... but one night... two guys from the mothers of
invention were playing the music. yeah, but really great. billy mundi and preston. so, the idea is, one night, they said a woman was coming in... we all stayed in this house. it was the '60s. it was like, everybody chipped
in. it was hippie stuff. you know, we ate brown rice and vegetables and this kind of stuff. it was like, "meredith monk is coming." i didn't know who meredith monk was.
she came with a couple of people in her troupe, and we were all hanging around one night, and she said, "well, let's put this thing together for saturday night." it was an amazing dance piece we did. >> riedel: i got to say --
you move very well. he moves very well on the stage. >> kinney: he does, doesn't he? >> riedel: gracefully. >> devito: thank you very much. 50 years of ballet. >> riedel: [ laughing ] that'll do it. >> haskins: why did you go to
new york in the first place? >> devito: my sister sent me here to become a makeup artist. i didn't have any designs on the theater at all. in fact, the only play i'd ever seen was... >> riedel: "mister roberts." >> devito: ..."mister roberts,"
in a tent in new jersey. my father got tickets. anyway, bottom line is, i came in to do something else totally, and the only way i could do it was to enroll in the american academy of dramatic arts, because the woman who was teaching the makeup course
worked there. and then, i got hooked. you know, you have a good teacher, you start understanding what it's all about. read my first play when i was, like, 20. 18, 19, 20 years old. you know, same kind of thing,
you know, where you didn't... >> ruffalo: blue collar. >> devito: but very, very, very interested in movies. every week, the movie changed in asbury. i lived in asbury park. and, you know, i'd go to -- we had five movie theaters in a
mile-square town. it's a really amazing place. so, you would get to see -- like, for instance, i would see -- the adult movies were at the lyric. they were all condemned by the chur-- i'm a catholic.
i was raised with nuns and the whole thing. and, you know, you would go to that movie first. i loved jerry lewis. i loved all the, you know, edward g. robinson. the first-run movies were coming through the big theaters, but
the first thing i would go to see is "i am a camera" or something like that, you know what i mean? yeah. you know, like, "m." you know, like, something -- f. lang, or... >> haskins: but you ended up
mostly in the movie business. so what has lured you back to broadway? was it this project... >> devito: good material. really good. i mean, i work with a lot of good writers. "taxi" was always great.
"always sunny" is wiggy and crazy. >> haskins: oh, i love that. >> devito: guys are, like, really fun. i've always had the good fortune of that. but to really get to work on something like --
the first one was "the sunshine boys." that's neil simon, and i was in london for -- >> haskins: you get to spit in that, don't you? >> devito: i get to spit in almost everything i do. okay, so, the idea is that --
>> riedel: but you don't always get to spit at mark ruffalo. >> devito: no, no, no. >> ruffalo: that's the reason he did the play. >> devito: so, like, the idea is basically material. if you get something that's, like, that or, you know,
arthur miller -- blessed to be in this play. and he called me about it. >> riedel: why'd you think of him? >> kinney: danny? >> riedel: yeah. >> kinney: why wouldn't i? i mean, he's one of my favorite
actors to begin with, and i always saw -- i just him in the role, and it took me a long time to convince him. it really took me a long time. >> devito: yeah. >> kinney: we met. and then he'd say, "let's meet up again in a week or two."
and i would be like, "ah, come on!" >> riedel: just say yes, please! >> kinney: but it really was, you know, four or five times and 25 phone calls. >> ruffalo: you really made him court you, didn't you? >> kinney: yeah, but it was
worth it because he made me think about the play in a deep way. >> devito: i kept trying to figure out if i fit, you know, in the whole scheme of things. and after a few meetings with terry and a dozen phone calls and e-mails and stuff -- yeah.
>> riedel: and did you leap at the chance, mark, or did you have to be courted, as well? >> ruffalo: we had a very limited courting period. it was much more of a modern relationship that way. we sort of slept together and then got to know each other
afterward. it was, like, three days, or... >> kinney: i mean, it just happened suddenly that mark was available, and... >> ruffalo: it was amazing. >> kinney: ...and we talked for a few minutes on the phone when he said he would do it,
but he had to go -- you said, "i've got to go to a doctor, so you can tell everybody," and i didn't. i sat down at the table trying to figure out if i actually... >> ruffalo: well, i had till 12:00 noon on that day. >> kinney: he had till 12:00
noon, and he called me at 11:57, from a subway. >> ruffalo: and i was like, "terry, i've decided i'm gonna do this. you can tell everyone so they don't pull the offer. >> devito: well, he came in, and he hail mary'd us.
>> kinney: we were ready to... >> devito: we were ready to... >> kinney: not gonna be able to do the... >> haskins: it was already cast, and then someone went out. >> riedel: oh, i forgot. that's right. somebody dropped out.
>> kinney: but the funny thing is that, i mean, in truth, a year before that, i had asked mark to do it. and he couldn't do it, so it was really nice to -- >> ruffalo: but i knew terry, too, and i know his work, and i've always been a fan of his,
so it wasn't hard for me. i mean, arthur miller, terry, danny devito, jessica hecht, and tony shalhoub. >> riedel: pretty good reasons to do the play, i got to say. >> ruffalo: but the funny thing was, i was with a friend of mine, and she said, "what would
y--" and i got the call that the movie was getting pushed for four months. i was actually preparing for the movie with my friend. she's a coach. greta seacat. and she said, "well, what would
you like to do now?" i was like, "honestly"... 'cause there was a movie that i have been trying to direct, that i could've shot in this period of time. she was like, "do you want to do the movie?" i was like, "no, it's too
rushed." i was like, "honestly, all i want to do right now is be in a play on a stage in new york with great actors, great writing, and people i love, where it's not on my shoulders, where it's a true ensemble, and it's just a play.
it's not a high-concept piece. it's just actors doing what they do on a stage. and at 10:00 the next morning, my agent called and said, "listen. >> ruffalo: ..."sign me up." >> haskins: one last quick question.
do you think that "the price" is more relevant to our current times? >> kinney: it's very salient now. i mean, obviously, i think it always was, because, you know, miller just has real situations, and so we got to read our own
lives and catharses onto it, but 1968? this was a time that matches this almost perfectly. >> riedel: susan asks the serious questions, but i like the fun questions. richard griffiths was a great friend of ours on this show.
he was on a number of times. and i know you got to be very friendly with him. >> devito: we became really friendly, yes. >> riedel: and i get a sense, hanging out with you backstage, it's fun there because you are continuing the tradition of the
richard griffiths memorial drink that everybody -- tell us what that concoction is. >> devito: well, the thing is, it's gin. so, richard, every night, when we finished the play -- >> haskins: at least you finished it.
>> devito: we got through the play, yes. every night, i'd go visit him in his dressing room. people would come visit. he had the dressing room that was the closest, the most convenient. anyway, it was also the most
stocked. he had bottles of gin, limes, big bags of limes, and a juicer. which, i have the memorial juicer in my, um -- rest his soul. i loved him so much. we had such a great time. we worked -- one quick story.
we worked in the savoy theatre. and the savoy theatre's built on the embankment, they call it. it's 70 steps from the stage door to the stage. and that's where all the dressing rooms are, down by the stage. so eight times a week, if you
wanted to go out after the matinee, you'd walk up and down 70 steps. so richard and i used to do it -- it was a comedy routine -- backwards, go down backwards. the two of us going down backwards, taking turns, and... you know, many, many fart jokes,
you know what i'm saying? like, "who's going first?" "how you feel?" "what'd you eat for dinner?" you know, this kind of thing. "i'll go first." "okay." but every night, it was gin and lime and a lot of ice, shake it
up, and pour it in martini glasses. >> ruffalo: it's a gin margarita. >> haskins: you did eight performances a week? >> devito: eight a week. >> haskins: well, my hat's off to you.
>> devito: well, he didn't drink after every one. i mean, well -- yeah. yeah. not the matinees. >> riedel: have you had this -- >> devito: no, we're gonna -- they've come in for little schnappses and stuff like, you
know, a scotch, a this. this one here doesn't drink. he's eating tofu all the time. he's like, you know. the thing is that, you know, i've got to really -- now that we're open and everything is cool. we're going along.
i'll get them pasted on this richard griffiths drink. >> riedel: i have a feeling your dressing room will be like robert preston's was. it was the bar that everybody -- >> ruffalo: oh, it's the best dress-- he's got it so styling, man.
it is amazing. >> kinney: when i want to speak to mark, i have to climb mount vesuvius to get to him. he's on top. >> ruffalo: that's the only exercise i'm getting now. >> riedel: all right, guys. fine revival of "the price" at
the american airlines theatre, directed by terry kinney and starring mark ruffalo and thanks a lot for being our guests here on "theater talk." >> ruffalo: thanks. >> solomon: what is the key word today? "disposable."
the more you can throw it away, the more it's beautiful. the car, the furniture, the wife, the children -- everything's got to be disposable. because, you see, the main thing today is...shopping. years ago, a man was unhappy,
didn't know what to do with himself. he'd go to church, start a revolution -- something. today, unhappy, you can't figure it out? what's the salvation? go shopping. >> haskins: our thanks to the
friends of "theater talk" for their significant contribution to this production. "theater talk" is made possible in part by... the frederick loewe foundation. the cory & bob donnalley charitable fund. the noel coward foundation.
cary j. frieze. the dorothy strelsin foundation. and the new york city department of cultural affairs. >> narrator: we welcome your questions or comments for "theater talk." thank you.
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